How to Build Strong Donor Relationships and Boost Fundraising Success in Christian Nonprofits

Inside: - Grow major donors fast with a people-first approach - Tap into global impact to keep new donors engaged - Shift from brand loyalty to ongoing relationship-building

Chip Nightingale

Word of Life

The feeling of giving as a corporation and making a difference in the form of a color blurr.

Episode Summary:

Mastering Donor Relationships: Chip Nightingale's Expert Insights for Christian Nonprofits

Join host Matt Lombardi as he interviews Chip Nightingale, Vice President of Development at Word of Life Fellowship, in this insightful episode of the Holy Donuts podcast. In this video, Chip shares his journey and highlights the importance of building deep connections with donors in fundraising for Christian nonprofits. Discover how Chip's personal experiences and faith led him to prioritize relationships over sales, and learn how his strategies have transformed the fundraising efforts at Word of Life. With a focus on collaboration, transparency, and trust, Chip offers valuable insights for Advancement Development Professionals in Christian Nonprofits. Don't miss this episode if you want to improve your fundraising success and foster meaningful relationships with donors. Watch now and be inspired!

In this episode, you will be able to:

Discover the criticality of nurturing relationships for successful Christian non-profit fundraising.
Immerse yourself in the rising trend of inter-ministerial collaborations and partnerships for better outcomes.
Recognize the ultimate value of trust and transparency in cultivating strong donor relationships.
Identify with the struggles and tenacity needed in the dynamic environment of advancement development roles.
Learn how technology can play a significant role in amplifying donor engagement and effective storytelling. List 2:

My special guest is Chip Nightingale

Venturing into the business world as a fresh graduate, building a successful multimillion-dollar construction company, and leading a daycare franchise, Chip Nightingale has proven his impressive entrepreneurial prowess time and again. During his formative years in business, Chip recognized the power of building relationships, a value he maintains to this day as the Vice President of Advancement for Word of Life Fellowship. His journey has been far from a linear sprint, having also spearheaded a thriving volunteer program that grew exponentially under his stewardship. Chip's diverse experiences across fields endow him with a unique perspective and a deeply ingrained sensitivity to relationship-building. His passion for the Christian ministry remains at his core, driving his every endeavor.

The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Introduction,

00:00:54 - Chip's Journey to Word of Life,

00:04:29 - Strategies for Engaging Donors,

00:08:10 - Exciting Trends in Christian Nonprofits,

00:09:47 - Challenges with the Next Generation of Donors,

00:13:28 - Importance of Having Conversations and Growing Together,

00:14:49 - Recommended Resource: "The Third Conversion" by Scott Rodin,

00:17:09 - Scott Rodin as a Guest,

00:17:35 - Last Thoughts: Stay the Course,

00:18:20 - Closing Remarks,

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

Visit the Holy Donuts website to listen to the Holy Donuts podcast.
Check out Word of Life Fellowship's website to learn more about their organization and the work they do.
Consider making a donation to Word of Life Fellowship to support their mission and ministry.
Connect with Word of Life Fellowship on social media to stay updated on their latest news and events.
Explore the volunteer opportunities available at Word of Life Fellowship and consider getting involved.
Learn more about Chip Nightingale and his role as VP of Development at Word of Life Fellowship.
Subscribe to the Holy Donuts podcast on your preferred podcast platform to never miss an episode.
Share the Holy Donuts podcast with your friends and family who might be interested in listening.
Sign up for the Holy Donuts newsletter to receive updates and exclusive content from the podcast.
Follow Holy Donuts on social media to stay connected and engage with the podcast community.

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Go Deeper:

Get ready for a deep dive into the world of relationship-building and fundraising with Chip Nightingale. As the Vice President of Development at Word of Life Fellowship, Chip brings first-hand experience and a fresh perspective on how relationships can fuel fundraising success. His journey from the business world to a Christian nonprofit is a testament to his resilience and adaptability. Chip's story will inspire us as he takes us through his approach to deepening relationships with donors, building an effective team, and utilizing technology to make a difference.

Chip Nightingale's journey is an inspiring confluence of the entrepreneurial spirit, relationship-building skills, and a fervent drive to serve the Christian ministry. With his start in the business world as a college student, Chip crafted a successful multimillion-dollar construction company that taught him both indispensable business skills and the power of relational approach in advancing ventures. His subsequent engagement in a daycare franchise and establishing a flourishing volunteer program are testaments of his ability to diversify and adapt. As the Vice President of Advancement for Word of Life Fellowship today, Chip's approach remains rooted in those fundamentals.

Imagine a world where every interaction with your donors goes beyond transactional exchanges. A world where you understand what fuels their giving spirit and use this knowledge to build deep, meaningful relationships. This isn't a fantasy, but a reachable reality for Christian nonprofits. By leveraging technology and strategic partnerships, we can revolutionize the way we communicate and engage with our supporters. This isn't just about boosting fundraising efforts; it's about enriching personal and professional experiences in a way that leaves lasting effects.

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Here are the key steps:

Identify and Understand Your Donor Base: Know who you're reaching out to and what motivates them to donate. Find out what they are passionate about and tailor your messaging accordingly.
Build Strong Donor Relationships: Prioritize personal connections with donors, not just asking for donations. Cultivate deep relationships through regular communication and genuine engagement.
Leverage Technology for Enhanced Communication: Use technology to augment your relationship-building efforts. Tools like email newsletters, social media, and interactive websites can help keep donors informed and engaged.
Foster Collaborative Partnerships: Rather than trying to be all things to all people, seek out partnerships with other organizations that can complement your strengths and help in areas where you need improvement.

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1. Identify and Understand Your Donor Base: Know who you're reaching out to and what motivates them to donate. Find out what they are passionate about and tailor your messaging accordingly.

One essential step in fundraising is understanding and identifying your donor base. That involves gaining insight into what drives your donors to give, understanding their passions, and tailoring your messaging to meet their interests and preferences. By aligning these drivers with the mission and goals of your organization, you create a clear path for donors to feel engaged, valued, and invested in your cause. This step goes beyond generic communication or broad appeal; it delves into the specifics of what motivates individual donors or groups of donors in your niche. It's a deliberate, calculated, and surefire approach toward potential and current donors that greatly increases the chances of successful fundraising. From Chip Nightingale's perspective, fostering deep relationships with donors and constructing a strong donor base were key aspects of his role as Vice President of Development at Word of Life Fellowship. He was not just asking for money – he was building an alliance. Chip shared that successful fundraising is equated with relationship building, wherein the donor and the organization share a mutual understanding and respect for each other's roles. An effective strategy that worked well for Word of Life was adding personnel to the team specifically to build these personal relationships. Even as technology augments communication, it doesn't replace the power of the human touch and connection that grants credibility and trust to the ministry's mission. Understanding and engaging your donor base effectively is vital. This strategy can contribute to a solid foundation for any nonprofit organization. It makes fundraising less transactional and more relational, which impacts both the short-term and long-term success of an organization. Any organization that seeks to foster positive, lasting relationships with its donors will see the benefits unfold in various ways – a boost in donations, increased engagement, long-term loyalty, and higher levels of advocacy among supporters. It allows the organization to connect their donors directly to the impact of their gifts, making every donation a shared success story. This relationship-centric approach transcends the money and builds a shared passion for the cause, leading to increased impact and longevity for the organization.

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2. Communicate to build Trust:

Trust and relationship building, as explained by Chip Nightingale, forms the foundation of effective fundraising, especially in Christian nonprofits. Donor relationships are not merely about transactions, but rather about a meaningful partnership grounded in a shared mission and passion. This approach swings the door wide open for collaboration and partnership. Instead of being all things to all people, nonprofits can hone in on what they're good at, investing their resources where they would make the most impact, while leveraging partnerships in areas where other organizations might excel. This optimized way of working not only maximizes resource allocation but it also holds the potential of transforming general donors into major ones, significantly boosting the organization's funding. Chip Nightingale brings a refreshing perspective to fundraising, allowing room for faith and divine provision. He references the book, The Third Con by Scott Rodin, that emphasizes the significance of donor relationships and trusting God's ability to provide. This shifts the focus from solely human effort to create an atmosphere of faith where fundraising is not a stressful task to be shouldered alone, but a collaborative effort that involves the donors, the organization and even divine providence. This open and trusting attitude towards fundraising translates into donors feeling valued and appreciated, fostering a deeper connection and greater commitment to the cause. Chip’s own experience as a business owner affirms the value of consistency and perseverance, pointing to the fact that relationships, like fine wine, only gets better with time. This integration of trust, relationship building, and faith into the fundraising strategy stands to significantly benefit nonprofits, particularly Christian ones. The importance of this insight becomes more pronounced with the changing dynamic in donor loyalty. As trend forecasts suggest that newer donors are not as brand loyal as previous generations, the task of ensuring a steady flow of resources becomes more difficult. Hence, the need to foster deep connections with donors cannot be overstated. It's not just about the financial resources; it's about shared passion and dedication to a cause. And when these connections run deep, donors don’t just give, they advocate for the organization’s mission. Encouraging these long term relationships is key to ensuring consistent support for the nonprofit and its mission, making it indispensable in the realm of fundraising strategy.

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3. Build Strong Donor Relationships: Prioritize personal connections with donors, not just asking for donations. Cultivate deep relationships through regular communication and genuine engagement.

A fundamental aspect in the realm of fundraising, particularly in Christian nonprofits, is about cultivating strong donor relationships. Seemingly, it is less about simply asking for funding, but rather about nurturing enduring relationships with those willing to contribute. Think of it as nurturing a garden; constant communication, genuine engagement, and providing ongoing support results in a flourishing relationship. Incorporating a personal touch into every interaction with donors can add a depth of sincerity that can resonate with them profoundly. Being transparent and sincere can create an atmosphere of trust which could lead to donors becoming more deeply invested in the organization in the long term. Reflecting back on our recent enlightening conversation with Chip Nightingale, the Vice-President of Development at Word of Life Fellowship, there are fascinating insights to extrapolate in terms of fostering these donor relationships. Chip connected funding with pastoral duties, simplifying it as an act of supporting, encouraging, and striving to form a deeper relationship with the donors. Chip's knack for establishing such connections enables him to comprehend the needs of the donors, ultimately leading to a rewarding relationship for both parties. His strategy to utilize technology to reach out to potential donors, while still maintaining a focus on personal touch, is rather commendable. Understanding the essence of forging strong donor relationships is imperative for achieving success in fundraising. It's not solely about getting the donors to contribute towards your cause but making them feel associated with your organization. Vibrant relationships with donors result in them feeling integral to the organization and its mission. As they see the tangible impact of their contributions, they are inspired to continue supporting. Therefore, fundraising isn't about seeking funds in isolation, but weaving a connected community that believes in the cause and wants to be a part of its journey. It's about giving the donors the satisfaction of knowing that their contribution is making a significant difference and that they are indeed a part of the organization's success story.

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For those working in advancement development within Christian nonprofits, these insights offer a valuable guide to increasing your fundraising success. Understanding your donors, nurturing those relationships, leveraging technology for better communication, promoting collaborations, and putting trust in divine provision - all these steps are integral in your growth journey. As you implement these strategies, remember that the heart of your work lies in connecting with people and making a difference. Your efforts, combined with faith and perseverance, can lead to the realization of your organization's vision. So, take these insights, apply them, and watch as your relationships deepen, your reach expands, and your impact grows.

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What other steps are you taking? Comment below and let me know.

Transcript

00:00:00 - Matt Lombardi
Well, hey, everyone. Welcome to the first kickoff episode of the Holy Donuts podcast brought to you by we give. Super excited today because I get to kick off the show with one of my good friends, Chip Nightingale, who currently is at Word of Life Fellowship, one of the coolest organizations out there serving students and getting the gospel out to them. So Chip, thanks so much for joining me today.

00:00:21 - Chip Nightingale
Well, I'm excited about being with you, Matt, and excited about that. I'm the very first person to be on your podcast. How amazing is that?

00:00:29 - Matt Lombardi
Dude, I would not have anyone else do it. We had a trailer out, which is just me talking too much. But besides that, man, first one in and just kick it off. Tell people a little bit about you, man. Tell them how you got into this space. You are currently VP of Development. Correct for Word of Life. Give them your official title, your CV, the whole nine yards, but really just help us understand how you got into this space and what you love about it.

00:00:54 - Chip Nightingale
Yeah, well, it's amazing how God takes you through journeys to prepare you for the journey that he has really prepared for you now. And I think what's exciting about the journey that I am right now is I am seeing how God has used all of the experience that I've gone through in the last 25 years of my adult life. I think it's only 25 years of my adult life as we kind of go through this process of raising funds. But before that, I started a business right out of college. Actually, while I was in college, I started a construction company and that grew into a multimillion dollar company in which we had 15 employees. And I did all the sales. I did all the sales. I did everything setting things up. And the Lord just started challenging my heart to do even more. So we got into a daycare franchise and we were going to minister in that way. And all these things started to happen and it felt like we were heading in the right direction. And then God put a halt on all of it. 2005 to 2008 was when the housing market crash hit. Everything just changed for me, but it was during that time, really, right before I lost everything. God started saying, hey, I got something different for you. And I just was fighting it and fighting it and fighting it. And he had to strip it away from me. Went on a missions trip with Word of Life, believe it or not, and started taking work teams overseas. And next thing I know, they're asking if I would come up to Screwnlake New York and start a volunteer program there, which I didn't know anything about volunteers or anything. I just knew how to build buildings. I knew how to do sales. Well, I took those same approaches to start the volunteer program and we grew that from 150 volunteers my first year to over 1500 within five years. And then after that, the Lord was like, hey, I've got something different for you. I want you to move back to Michigan. And went back to Michigan not knowing I was going to pass our church, but the church I grew up in asked if I would consider it. So I was like, yeah, maybe not. No, I don't ever want to be a pastor. But I went through the process because it was like, you know what, God, I'm not going to reject him again and again and again. I learned my lesson the first time, so I walked through it and gave them all of these ten page papers of this is what we have to do to change the church thinking that would just cause them to panic and scare them off. And needless to say, they took me on. And after eight years, we grew from 75 to over 700 weekly attendance and started running a camp. And because we were successful at running this camp, getting them out of debt, world Life asked if I'd come back and be the Director of Advancement. And in the three years they have moved me from director of Advancement to Vice President of Advancement. Which just means now I'm over not just fundraising, I'm over all the volunteers and getting ready to start implementing new processes for overseas trips as well. So that is a quick synopsis of what I've gone through to get to where I am at today.

00:04:02 - Matt Lombardi
I love that though, because it's so cool to see how God gave you those skills. Right. The sales, which anyone who's in development and advancement out there kind of knows that's that key skill set that's underneath everything you're doing is the ability to pitch a vision to get people excited and motivated to give towards the organization. But it's just cool to see how God used every single step along the way to say, hey, I'm going to prepare you for what I have next to help serve the kingdom in a bigger way. Yeah. And I don't think anyone dreams of growing up. No one's. A seven year old kid saying one day I hope I'm senior VP of Advancement for a large. Exactly right. But God knows what he's doing and brings us to that. So I love that.

00:04:41 - Chip Nightingale
Well, interesting enough, God even challenged my heart early on in business that it was about relationships, not about actually making sales. And that was huge for me. We developed our construction company not based on this is how we're going to do it, but how do you want us to do it for you? And that mode of thinking really set the stage for how I led even up to where we are today. And I did not realize how important it was going to be in the field. I am now to really be very relational.

00:05:15 - Matt Lombardi
That's huge, man. I love that. So with that relationship kind of thought process in mind, right. I want to transition us really quick into really a question that we're going to be asking a lot of guests in the weeks and the months and hopefully years ahead on this show, which is you're in this advancement chair, right? So talk to us a little bit. Help other advancement leaders or development leaders or even nonprofit marketing leaders out there think through what are some of the best strategies for engaging in relationship, right? For engaging relationship, your donor base. What have you seen that really worked well, that you think is just absolutely something that you guys have crushed it on?

00:05:54 - Chip Nightingale
The thing that we are doing an extremely good job with within our organization in the last three years, we set out a goal in 2021 by 2025 to grow our major donors by 30%. And we actually did that within the first two and a half years, even during the COVID period of time. And the reason why is because we basically invited more people onto our team. To be able to go to people and have relationship, there really aren't any tools or anything like that. You just have to have a gift of jab. You have to have a gift of listening and a gift of hearing what they're saying and remembering so that when we go back to them, they know that they're a part of our family. Very much like being a pastor.

00:06:42 - Chip Nightingale
Share that all the time with our team. Remember, you're like the elders of our ministry. You're going out and you're encouraging those who are investing in us. And we're not asking for money. What we're doing is just giving them the tools they need to grow in their walk with the Lord. And if the Lord works on their heart to give us more funds because of that, then great. But maybe it is that we actually provide funds for someone else. So we want to steer their hearts where God wants their hearts to be. And because of that, our relationships have grown deeply for us. A major donor is anybody who gives more than $5,000 in a year at some point in time in a year. So it's just been exciting to see that growth.

00:07:26 - Matt Lombardi
Yeah, I love that. And I'm just picking up on your strategy there. It's really just people, right? People. You even said the strategy is we hired more people and sometimes we're looking for what's the new cool tool? Or like, the magic trick that it's a silver bullet that, well, if we just put this system in place, then that system will fix everything. And the best system you have sometimes is people, right? Yes, exactly. Relationship builders, boots on the ground to go do that work of building and reaching out. Well congrats to word of life. I mean, that's a huge jump in major donors and great work there. So what's something that you're seeing right now in the nonprofit, especially christian nonprofit, just who our audience is, right? Who we're looking to serve? What's something that you're seeing that's really exciting, that has you pumped about where this thing is going for ministries across the country?

00:08:17 - Chip Nightingale
Well, I think the thing that's exciting to me is the fact that if you engage your new donors today and you can see how their investment is going to impact the world, they're more likely to stay with you. For me, that's exciting because we're a worldwide ministry for others, I'm sure like, oh, my goodness, we're only ministering in our county. But how's your county touching the world? I mean, that's really what it boils down to. And I think it's so important that all ministries, especially in the advancement field or development field, that we're thinking about how we're helping the donor touch the world, how this specific thing is going to have impact not just where we're at right now, but in the world. And what's so cool is the technology we have today is making it so that people can not just hear about it, but they can see it. They can touch it, they can feel it. My kids, they have friends all over the world. They've never even met them, but they're engaging with them. They're having conversations with them. They've never been face to face. But through what we're doing here with this podcast, they can build a relationship with someone. So I think that's one of the exciting things that's happening for the future.

00:09:29 - Matt Lombardi
Okay. And then on the other side of that, right? So let's be happy for a minute. What are you a little bit concerned about? Not worried, not keeping you up at night, but what's just something that you're keeping a pulse on, saying, we'll see where this goes?

00:09:42 - Chip Nightingale
Well, research is showing us that the giving trends are changing. The boomers, the great generation, the boomers, even the gen zers, kind of where I'm at. All those types of things. One of the things I began to realize is that most of the donors we have are there because of their loyalty to us. They're loyal to a brand. The donors for the future are not. They're not loyal to the brand. And basically they can move in any direction at any moment because someone might touch their heart in a different way. And I think that's one of the things that's concerning to us, because right now and we're having conversations about it and getting ready for this, but we don't have the tools in place to keep them engaged and keep them excited and those types of things, because reality is, we still only have six major gift officers. We really can only touch about six to 700 people a year, but we need our donor base to be 10,000, 20,000. So how do we begin to get tools within our tool belt that can make them feel like they're a part of what's happening because if we don't make them feel like they're a part of it, they're going to go to someone who will.

00:10:58 - Matt Lombardi
Yeah, that's so true. It goes back to that relationship piece again, which is hey, at the end of the day, the next Generation gives based on relationship and based on really communication who is talking to them the most? Who has that storytelling in their ear on a regular basis? Who is in front of them that moves them, like you said, and so critical just to always be in front of that audience, to be there seemingly that brand or that organization. They just know, oh, yeah, of course, Word of Life, that's of course who I'd give to because I'm always hearing stories about impact from them. So that's great. I mean, I think that is one of those things that is concerning, but it's also an opportunity, right. Like most of the things that we deal with in ministry, it is a concern, but if we see, okay, well, God, what are you up to here? It's an opportunity for us to evolve, to grow and to ultimately be more impactful long term.

00:11:49 - Chip Nightingale
Absolutely. And I think that's a failure that we're an old ministry, we're over 75 years old and typically ministries that have been around as long as we're stuck in that past and we have been, and we're getting to that place where we were beginning to move forward and move out of it. But the mind shift of realizing that the old way it may have worked for the old way and being able to connect with people in the old way, but to connect with new people, we need to know how and what it is that those new people really are going to be passionate about. And we need to be able to make adjustments, which is that's what makes it exciting for me, made it exciting for me to come back to word of life was like to move us so that we're still going to be relevant in the next 50 to the next 100 years. Man, there's some changes that need to be made, but this is a time to be a part of those changes.

00:12:48 - Matt Lombardi
Yeah, it's an exciting time to be part of these ministries because there are so many. I mean, I think Word of Life is one of thousands across the country, right, tens of thousands that came out of the huge evangelical movement of the right. And there was just this wellspring of people who wanted to go impact the world with the good news of the gospel. And those ministries are kind of natural, age wise, starting to age to where it's, hey, wait, the way that we did it then was great and it served those generations so well. Okay, so how do we become the next generation of this ministry? And I think you guys are there as are thousands of ministries across the country. So thanks for speaking to that, for being transparent.

00:13:30 - Chip Nightingale
Well, I think it's important and this is not to put a plug in for you guys, but just the reality of having conversations with Share Talent and other organizers. We give those types of things that we have out there. I think it's important for us to have these conversations to help us to grow together because we don't all know everything. We need to lean on each other and grow together. And I think that's the shift that's happening in ministries. It used to be we're going to be all things to all people, and it's so fun to see the shift in our ministry

00:14:07 - Chip Nightingale
There's another organization over here that can actually do this way better than we could ever do this. Let's partner with them. Let's just be good at what we are good at. We're good at relationships and let's let them help us be even better at relationships and maybe they have the tools so that maybe we don't have to have as many staff. It'll be cheaper but at the same time it will be a great investment because we know once we get them from that general file where they just started giving to the mid level donor, we know once they become a mid level donor with us that we're probably going to make them a major donor. And so these types of things are exciting for us as we're developing relationships with other organizations.

00:14:48 - Matt Lombardi
Yes. So talking about helping other organizations grow, what book, what resource, what podcast? Please don't plug this because you don't know if this is going to be good. But what resource do you find yourself giving away the most? What book? You can plug your own book here. I know you have one that's come out. What are you giving away to other leaders that you say, hey, if you're in this space you need to read this, you need to listen to this, you need to watch this. What's the kind of that resource that.

00:15:13 - Chip Nightingale
You'Ve been well, to be honest with you, I'm not going to put a plug out there for my own book. It deals with conflict. We all have conflict and if people want to know about that, they can reach out to me and I would love to spend some time with you, talk. But we're talking about relationships and really one of the best things, the best book for me that kind of opened my eyes and it's more of a story form book. It's not actually you need to do this, this and this. I like stories. It helps to paint a picture for me. Scott Rodin, he works for the focus group. They're in St. Augustine. Focus group is really they help ministries like us with capital campaigns, knowing how to move things forward. Well, Scott wrote and he's been in this business for a very long time. And his book, The Third Conversion, that's the one I tell people about all the time. The reason why is because he pinpoints the value of relationships over anything else, and ultimately because we're a Christian organization, and most of the people are probably going to be listening to this as a Christian organization. The reality is we're not the ones in charge of the money. And in fact, the people we're talking to, they're not the ones in charge of the money. God is. And so if we're encouraging their hearts through what God is doing in their lives, and this book just kind of walks you right through it, it gives you kind of an example after example of illustrations of how this works out. And it really opens your eyes to the reality that, hey, maybe they didn't give this time, but they might next time, and how do we encourage that? And, hey, are we really listening to them? Maybe they should be giving to a different organization than us, and let's just build trust with that individual. Let's let God be the person that raises funds for us, and let's not get in the way of being the ones that think we have to do it all.

00:17:09 - Matt Lombardi
That's so cool. Well, we'll definitely link in the show notes to that book by Scott Roden, the Third Conversion excited. And I should just reach out to Scott and actually have him on the show. You should.

00:17:18 - Chip Nightingale
I tell you what, man, he is a fantastic speaker. I've heard him several times, and he would be a tremendous encouragement to your team.

00:17:27 - Matt Lombardi
Cool. We'll definitely have him on if he's got the time for it. Chip Nightingale, thank you so much for being on the show today. Any last thoughts for the audience? Anything that you'd want to share before we sign off?

00:17:39 - Chip Nightingale
I think well, maybe the only thing I would add to all of this is that stay the course. The reality is, in advancement development teams, the average person only stays a year and a half. But I'm a business owner, I've been through the process, and when I went to school, they told us very specifically, it's going to take you three to five years to finally get to the place where you'll see success. It's the same way in development and advancement, relationships don't happen in a year and a half. Hang in there. Once you get over that year and a half pump, it'll start becoming real to you. And if you love that ministry, god will do the work for you as long as you let Him do the work.

00:18:18 - Matt LombardiThanks so much for joining us today, man. Really an honor to have you. Awesome. Thanks!

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Raise funds better, faster, and more effectively.