Have you heard these three myths about leveraging an entrepreneurial mindset in Christian nonprofits?

Myth 1: Nonprofits should focus solely on their mission and not worry about business strategies.

Myth 2: Nonprofits cannot take risks or embrace innovation.

Myth 3: Entrepreneurial thinking is only for for-profit organizations.

In this interview, Drew Friedrich will debunk these myths and share the truth about how an entrepreneurial mindset can drive growth and donor engagement in the nonprofit sector.

I just think everybody hears that idea. We're all fundraisers and it's true at the same time, we're all part of the same organization and we need the whole organization to grow.

This is Drew Friedrich's story:

Drew Friedrich, the guest on Holy Donuts, is a marketing expert who brings a unique perspective to the nonprofit sector. After spending time in a for-profit marketing agency, he felt a calling to do work that truly mattered. Joining Operation Blessing as the Director of Marketing for Orphans Promise, Drew gained firsthand experience in running an organization and learned the importance of storytelling in donor engagement. He believes that leveraging an entrepreneurial mindset is crucial for growth in the nonprofit world. Drew emphasizes the need for collaboration between the operations and marketing teams, as well as the power of effective communication and storytelling in conveying the impact of nonprofit work. By bridging the gap between operations and marketing, Drew is working towards creating a unified organization that can raise more funds to help more people in need.

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Discover the power of effective communication techniques to build stronger connections with donors and stakeholders, ultimately boosting your nonprofit's impact and success.
• Unleash the potential of unity and collaboration within your nonprofit organization to foster a culture of innovation, synergy, and shared vision, driving greater results and achieving your mission.
• Navigate the unique challenges faced by marketing directors in nonprofit tech infrastructure, and uncover strategies to overcome these obstacles, leveraging technology to effectively reach and engage your target audience.
• Harness the entrepreneurial mindset and learn how to think outside the box, take calculated risks, and embrace innovation, propelling your nonprofit forward and unlocking new opportunities for growth and sustainability.
• Dive into the world of AI and discover how nonprofits can leverage artificial intelligence for content creation, streamlining processes, and enhancing storytelling to connect with donors, volunteers, and supporters on a deeper level.

‍

Adopt A Long-Term Growth View

‍
Taking risks and having a long-term view are crucial ingredients in the nonprofit's growth recipe. Often, focusing solely on immediate ROI might restrict from trying new strategies, letting them grow, and seeing their long-term impact. Patience can be challenging, especially when resources are limited, but it can significantly contribute to a nonprofit's sustainable growth when coupled with smart risk-taking. This emphasis on the long-term perspective is drawn from Drew's approach in steering Operation Blessing. He encourages nonprofits to break free from the constraints of immediate results, daring them to take smart risks. By promoting strategies that might not show instant success but have the potential for a considerable long-term impact, nonprofits can potentially tap into growth opportunities that would've otherwise left unexplored.

‍

Embrace an Entrepreneurial Mindset

‍
In understanding how an entrepreneurial mindset can benefit nonprofits, it's crucial to recognize that startups and nonprofits share similar foundations. Both are powered by a clear mission, a captivating vision to solve a problem, and a strategy to achieve those goals. However, translating this to the nonprofit world, often characterized by a conservative and risk-averse mentality, can present some challenges. One of them could be overcoming the mindset that being „non-profitable“ equates to an absence of entrepreneurial strategies. From Drew Friedrich's perspective, Operation Blessing might not have seen itself as a tech startup initially, but it saw the effectiveness and advantage of using powerful startup tools and mindset. The focus isn't about aiming for profit but driving for impact, leveraging technology, and cultivating an innovative environment. He advises not shying away from experimenting and taking risks, as these are essential elements to any entrepreneurial journey, and they should be in the nonprofit world too.

‍

Leverage AI In Nonprofits

‍
Artificial Intelligence (AI) is transforming every aspect of our lives and industries, and the nonprofit sector is not an exception. Typically, AI can help nonprofits expand their content creation capabilities, predict trends, and make data-driven decisions. It's understandable that nonprofits might be hesitant about adopting AI solutions, given their limited resources, but it's a game-changer worthy of consideration. It can help nonprofits operate more efficiently, maximizing the impact they bring to their cause. Drew provides a clear example of AI’s capability from the inner workings of Operation Blessing. They've been developing AI-powered systems that can, at the touch of a button, create multiple pieces of curated content for campaigns. He advises nonprofits not to be afraid of AI, as it becomes a powerful ally to extend their reach and capacity.

‍

Focus on Multi-Channel Donor Engagement

‍
There's a common misconception that focusing on Return on Investment (ROI) in digital marketing is an accurate measure of success. However, thinking of ROI as the sole criterion can limit a nonprofit's ability to engage donors effectively across various channels. This is because not every valuable engagement or action can be immediately reflected in ROI. For instance, building strong donor relations and increasing brand awareness are key aspects that might not directly link to immediate financial gains. Reflecting on Drew's experiences at Operation Blessing, he stresses the significance of a multi-channel strategy approach. He noticed that nonprofits often avoid or stop marketing efforts that didn't show immediate success, but he warns that those efforts may contribute to overall success, including offline donations. He encourages taking a broader perspective when examining the outcomes of their strategies, embracing patience, and remaining consistent in engaging donors on various channels.

‍

Storytelling In Nonprofit Marketing

‍
Data is vital in guiding nonprofits, but it doesn't necessarily reflect an accurate picture of their overall impact. Instead, a compelling narrative can effectively communicate a nonprofit’s cause and impact. Often, a meaningful story can capture donors' hearts more effectively than raw data. Hence, balancing between data and storytelling in nonprofit marketing is key. Matt Lombardi endorsed this emphasis on storytelling, quoting Jeff Bezos: "If the data conflicts with the storytelling, trust the story." Drawing from his journey at Operation Blessing, Drew illustrates how human channels of communication – storytelling – are vital tools in spreading the word about their work. He stresses that data equips them, but stories inspire them, encouraging nonprofits to incorporate relatable storytelling in their marketing strategies.

‍

Adopt A Long-Term Growth View

‍
Taking risks and having a long-term view are crucial ingredients in the nonprofit's growth recipe. Often, focusing solely on immediate ROI might restrict from trying new strategies, letting them grow, and seeing their long-term impact. Patience can be challenging, especially when resources are limited, but it can significantly contribute to a nonprofit's sustainable growth when coupled with smart risk-taking. This emphasis on the long-term perspective is drawn from Drew's approach in steering Operation Blessing. He encourages nonprofits to break free from the constraints of immediate results, daring them to take smart risks. By promoting strategies that might not show instant success but have the potential for a considerable long-term impact, nonprofits can potentially tap into growth opportunities that would've otherwise left unexplored.

00:00:04
Well, hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Holy Donuts podcast, joined today by Drew Friedrich, the chief operating officer at Operation Blessing. Super excited for this conversation and just so grateful to have you on today. Drew, how you doing? Good, man.

00:00:18
I'm great, man. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk to you. And, you know, I'm a marketing guy by trade, but I'm in operations now, so I'm added to kind of scratch that marketing itch and talk about nonprofit work. It's awesome.

00:00:28
I love it, man. Okay, so let's start there then. You bring it up, right? That's kind of a wait, what kind of question, right? So Operation Blessing, you've been there sounds like about a year.

00:00:38
As their chief operating officer, how the heck does someone go from marketing to operations generally? That's not the path that most Christian nonprofits are going to promote from within for. So how did that happen, man? Tell us a little bit about your story with Operation Blessing and then maybe a little bit about why marketing into operations. Sure.

00:00:57
Yeah. So this is actually my second stint with Operation Blessing. I was here eleven years ago working on our United States hunger programs in a very different role, where I was kind of crafting some marketing messaging, but it was really for our vendors like the Coca Colas of the world, the Nature Valleys, all these guys, and I just felt like I wanted to go do something else. So I kind of went and cut my teeth th in a for profit marketing agency and spent some time there. And then as I was praying about it, I wanted to do work that really Mattered and felt like God was kind of calling me back to ministry.

00:01:24
And so there's a group that we're kind of a sister ministry with here called Orphans Promise, and they help orphans and vulnerable children all over the world. And so I came on board to be their director of marketing and got to spend seven and a half years really kind of helping to build that brand. But it was a really small team, and so I was part of a leadership team of four that was making kind of all the operational decisions for the organization. So even though marketing was my day to day responsibility, I kind of got to learn firsthand on the job training, hey, this is how you run an organization, this is how you hire people, this is how you budget, this is all these various pieces. And at the same time, when COVID hit, we're all in faith based nonprofits that are donor supported.

00:02:01
I wasn't sure what the economy was going to do, and I had a chance to go back to school, so I went to get my MBA and learned a lot of business in the classroom as well. And so literally, I finished my MBA on like a Wednesday. I was offered this job on a Friday. So it's kind of like the fastest turnaround from degree completion to higher ever. But I really think when I came, I had a guy who I love on my team who was like, it's kind of weird to put a marketing guy in an operations role.

00:02:24
But I think oftentimes what happens with operations guys is the marketing piece is what gets left out. And for me, if you're a growth minded executive and you're a growth minded nonprofit, it's the storytelling that makes all the difference. You know what I mean? You can do all the operations you want, but if you can't tell your story in a way that gets people excited about giving to you, it doesn't really Matter. And so I feel like starting with marketing and bringing in the operations training and experience along the way was kind of the best path to the seat that I'm sitting in now and allows me to really see things from both perspectives.

00:02:53
That's amazing. Well, most people are probably going to resonate with in Christian ministries and nonprofits. Sometimes it's kind of like all hands on deck and it's just, hey, I know this is in that other tasks as assigned portion of the job description that just so happens to you for you to be like an operations director, right? Oh, yeah, other tasks assigned. Okay, so I love that you're coming from a perspective of, hey, listen, operations, yes, but like growth mindset with marketing on that operation.

00:03:23
Blessing is obviously a big organization, right? Like many people listen this will have heard of it, you guys, very complex global organization. Talk to me a little bit more from a marketing put your marketing hat on for a minute. But operations is going to have some of this too. How do you all balance the complexity and sophistication you have to have right, when you're that big of an operation with the simplicity of clear storytelling, like really not overthinking the audience sometimes and what they need.

00:03:50
Can you talk to me a little bit about how you all approach that, even philosophically from, okay, we have to be complex, we want to be simple in the way that we do some of this. Yeah, I think that really is kind of another benefit of having a marketing guy sitting in the seat that I sit in because when I came, marketing was kind of an afterthought. So in other words, we want to do our programs with excellence and we still want to do our programs with excellence, but it goes all the way back to how we budget, right? What are the things that we want to accomplish and why we want to make an impact and change people's lives. But we also need to be able to tell that story, report well to our donors.

00:04:22
So we have to begin thinking about how we're going to tell that story early on in the process. Not late, oftentimes if we plan all this stuff out. And our programs are very complex and our reporting is great, but it's very sterile, numbers driven. We're not generating stories from the field. Then our fundraising team sits over here going, I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel to be able to tell people about this work that we do.

00:04:42
That's incredible. And we see the life change, but I need to be able to tell people that. So I think it's really getting the fundraising marketing folks around the table with the program, people in the same room and talking about, hey, we want you guys to do the best water projects that you possibly can, but include us so that you know what our needs are from the fundraising side and we can help you as you design your program. Hey, these are the three things we want to be able to talk about from this particular project. How can we build that into the reporting process?

00:05:08
How do we build that into our team in the field thinking about, okay, we're looking for stories at the same time that we're delivering this clean water or this medical aid or this food. So I really think it's that idea of starting collaboration earlier rather than later. If you try and fix it at the end when it's already done, you can't go back and change the recipe. So we got to fix the recipe early on and then it produces the right results. And that's great because I love that you're, from an operations perspective, able to get marketing into the conversation more with programs.

00:05:35
Because my gut says, and tell me if I'm wrong here, you're probably going to collect a lot of stories that you may have missed if you had gone on the back end, right. And tried to say, oh, yeah, we had all those great reports. Can we find a story from that? Right. Versus, hey, we're doing the work.

00:05:49
We know we're looking for stories about life change because of this. I'm just guessing that your field staff is collecting so many more stories and hitting all of them as opposed to or 90% of them, right, as opposed to losing out on a lot of stories that are just awesome opportunities. Yeah, that definitely is the case. And I think one of the other benefits of having the Ops team and the marketing fundraising guys talk more frequently is if you're willing to kind of hold everything with an open hand and not get your feelings hurt and have some constructive criticism to say, hey, listen, this story is great, but it's missing this piece. Or I can't sell this to a donor because of X, Y and Z.

00:06:24
Could we consider this in the next one, or does this information exist? My donor asked me this question. Maybe we could answer that question about every project we do. I think those are the conversations that really bear fruit and lead us to better growth in the future. And oftentimes we kind of tiptoe around each other and it's like, well, this is my lane and this is yours and we should never really cross and everybody has their own responsibilities, but if we aren't all pulling the rope in the same direction, we're not going to get there.

00:06:48
And so I just think everybody hears that idea. We're all fundraisers and it's true at the same time, we're all part of the same organization and we need the whole organization to grow. We're raising more money so we can help more people, you know what I mean? So for those two to not talk to each other makes no sense. But oftentimes that happens.

00:07:04
Yeah, 100%. We see that all the time with the organizations we work with. Right. And sometimes it gets as bad to where those two are almost warning. Right.

00:07:11
And so there's one side of marketing saying, hey, we have to tell stories and the other side saying, you don't understand our programs and it can get nasty. So getting everyone kind of on the same team from the start is huge. Feel free to go into this as much or as little detail as you're comfortable. Any specific things that you put in place as a leader for your team, like actual strategies or systems or processes to help that storytelling collection and the communication flow work? Well, there are there any things that you guys use that you said, hey, this worked really well for that process?

00:07:40
Yeah, it's actually one that we're kind of just starting. So maybe check back with me in a year and I'll let you know how it's going. But what I identified was kind of like an internal PR gap. In other words, all this information is coming in and various people need it in various roles and places, but there's nobody kind of coordinating that and making it available or putting it in a format that's easily accessible. And so again, just putting the stories into one platform isn't enough if nobody knows how to access those or how to then turn those into marketing materials or how to donor proposals.

00:08:09
So we've got an entirely new department with one person assigned per half of the world into our US programs. And their whole job is basically it's called strategic communications. And it's to basically move information from our programs teams to our marketing and fundraising teams and to meet with those guys to be in the meetings when our ops teams are talking so that our marketing folks hear what that sounds like and then communicate that. Put it into notes and into proposals for our donor team to then take to our major donors and our mid levels and say, hey, we're doing this incredible project that I think really lines up with, where your affinity love. Would you be a part of it?

00:08:40
Would you help us? I know you love giving communities clean water. Let me tell you about what we're doing in Mexico. And then we go. And so this person's kind of that pivotal point of connecting the dots because sometimes it's not going to just happen organically.

00:08:52
Everybody's so busy. We've got so much happening, none of us need one more meeting. But this person's job is to really be that liaison between the two pieces. And that's really been a connection point for us in the short time we've had it set up. That's amazing.

00:09:04
Yeah. Sometimes one of our internal mantras here at Shares, we often say sometimes a process is a person. Right. We talk about processes and systems. Like, is that really a process we need or is that just a person we need to do that?

00:09:15
Sure. That sounds like you guys found that solution with putting that strategic communications person in place. Okay, pivot a little bit. Yet again, going to the complexity, simplicity part of this, though, and your background in marketing and storytelling help me understand how you're thinking through everyone in nonprofit space. I just got back from a conference that I love where it's data, data driven insights.

00:09:35
Everything is data. But then on the other hand, you have some of the soft stuff of storytelling anecdotes like, well, I'm hearing this and we know as leaders that sometimes you're picking up on things that maybe you can't find somewhere in the data, but gut everyone kind of feels the momentum or feels that. How do you try to balance that as a leader? That data driven versus storytelling. More of the soft elements of what you guys are doing with your marketing, your donor engagement.

00:09:59
I know this is probably going to sound oversimplified, but I really think it's a communication piece. Because the thing I say to our teams in the field we've got 33 locations around the world where we work out of these offices, but also our teams here at headquarters supporting those groups is nobody knows your projects like you do. If you're our health programs manager, you know what we're doing. And so if I'm never talking to you or our executive team is never hearing reports from your group, we're not going to know what's happening. And all we're ever going to see is data and reports.

00:10:27
And there's a place for that. Now, don't get me wrong, but it can be very cold and it often doesn't move the needle in terms of the heartstrings for donors who want to be a part of what you're doing. So for us, I give board reports four times a year. And my board reports are not just numbers driven. In fact, we spend as much time, if not more, telling stories and sharing impact because we want our board to know, hey, when you approve our budgets, we're actually doing the work.

00:10:49
And here's proof of that. And so a lot of that, even with that position I mentioned before, that strategic communications kind of internal PR, it's also making sure that they're the ones kind of looking at application, at reports that are coming in and with reports also the stories that come in. And we're coordinating all that information up to chain and kind of across so that everybody's hearing that information on a regular basis. I just think story is the key into everything that we do. And again, I love data as much as the next person.

00:11:16
It helps us make wise decisions. We need to know if we're making a change in the community, where do we begin and where are we now? And we're trying to get better at that piece of it, but the stories happen every single day. And if our teams in the field understand the goal is to communicate that back to headquarters, then I think the whole organization begins to understand we are pulling that rope in the same direction. And you're an extension of what we do at HQ.

00:11:37
It's not separate. It's not like we have our Philippines office and our headquarters office and we're two separate teams. We're all part of one larger. I love that. I love that.

00:11:47
Just that unity of everyone on the same page, hey, we're all moving the same direction. We're all one team here. We just have different roles within it, right? And there's got to be different. Well, that's on a good day, that's how it's supposed to work.

00:11:57
Some days. It's not always as unified as we want, but we're heading in that direction. I love it. Okay, so something that I wanted to ask you specifically about, and this is not a common question that I ask to folks on this podcast, but because you sit in a marketing seat and also a senior C level right, like operations role help talk through a little bit some of the tech stack infrastructure. I talked to a lot of marketing directors who are really frustrated with their executive team because they're saying the tools that we have just don't work.

00:12:29
Like, there's so many gaps, there's so many things that are broken that are preventing us from engaging with our donors in a really thoughtful, really good way, that's smart, that's efficient, and all this kind of stuff. And yet they feel sometimes helpless because they're like, well, my hands are tied because an It guy four years ago selected this for me and had no idea what's going on marketing and now I'm stuck with it forever. And sea level won't support us to change help people out there in the marketing seat see from the sea level operations like, maybe what they're not seeing when it comes to some of their martech infrastructure, how they can better ask for the things that they need. This is just such a common thing that we hear from marketing directors frustrated with the tools that they use. A lot of times they feel like leadership won't give them the tools they need to get the job done.

00:13:16
Yeah, I get it. I've been in both seats when I was the marketing guy, I was the one fighting that battle. I think what I've found in this seat is you do have to sort of balance both sides. In other words, I've got a budget that I've got to present to the CFO every year, and he's got to say yay or nay, and the board's got to approve it. And so no Matter how bad I want that $100,000 piece of software, if it's not in the budget, it's not in the budget.

00:13:39
At the same time, I know as a marketer where we're being inefficient. And so if my job is to improve our operations and we're inefficient in this area because the technology is holding us back, then I think that's really my job, to go fight for my team and say, hey, we have to have this if you want us to do X, Y, and Z. And we're doing some of that even again, that strategic communications role that I mentioned is going to work with our teams to figure out what do you need platform wise, what do we not currently have, or how do we use what we do have differently. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, if we're spending an extra 10 hours a month or 10 hours a week, let's just say kind of combing through stuff that's not easy to use or not easy to get to, we can hire somebody for that role, you know what I mean? Or we could just get more efficient and not have to go pay benefits and do all these other things and spend the time to hire and recruit.

00:14:24
So I think we have a lot more talent in house than oftentimes we're leveraging because the technology is holding us back. The other thing is, it's a very competitive world that we live in. As you know, there are nonprofits, seems like on every street corner at times, and everybody's doing great work. We love that there's enough money to go around for everybody. That's kind of a myth.

00:14:40
Nobody believes, but there's enough money out there for all of us. But if we aren't talking to the right people the right way, personally, we're not being efficient with our time, the timing of our messages, and the distribution of those things, I think we kind of put ourselves behind the eight ball. So I see both sides, and that's really, again, I think, a benefit for me, feeling like I've felt the pressure of feeling like I just can't pull it off with this equipment, this technology is not enough. And at the same time, recognizing when you do have efficient email capabilities and fundraising, giving page capabilities, how much time you save, even just in terms of soft cost and time spent by your people, you do save a lot of money. The other thing I would say just kind of quickly is, and I fight this battle with our CFO, who's a tremendous guy, we have a great relationship, but he's got his job to and I've got mine to do.

00:15:26
We need to be mindful of the fact that when we put people in marketing seats, especially when we've got a good fundraising director or someone who's overseeing that piece of it, those are revenue generating positions. And so it's not the same as saying I need to go put an engineer in the field over here, which is also important. I'm not knocking that we need engineers to do incredible work and to do it with excellence. But if I hire a fundraiser, that position will pay for itself in twelve months, if we do a good job, if it's strategically placed. You know what I mean?

00:15:50
And so I think the tech and the right people and even the tech being thought of as a fundraising tool that'll generate revenue in the process and pay for itself is really the way that I frame it when I go to the CFO and say, hey, we've got to do this because we're falling short in this area. We're not raising enough money, or we're not able to personalize this message or segment this audience. And if we can't do that, then the fundraising is going to fall flat and nobody wants that. Yeah, absolutely. I would be curious to hear your feedback on this too, because one of the things that we've kind of observed as we work with organizations is that sometimes it's not even just a tool limitation or budget limitation.

00:16:23
There are just, let's call it organizational undercurrents that prevent change from happening with tools or systems or processes. Because there may be one person, I'm not going to say what department, but there may be one person who is saying, no, we're never going to do that, or they're blocking change, or they're blocking progress for another team. And the C level is often aware of those sort of personality dynamics and those undercurrents of the organization that are honestly just cultural organizational realities that maybe you as a marketing director don't really see. Right. You don't see that person who's been with the team for ten years.

00:16:55
It has their unique quirks and their unique history and well, we can't do this because that person's really important to our mission on what they're doing. And there are so many other things that go into it that are even soft skills sometimes that actually affect weirdly like your tech stack or something like that. That's something that you've seen from time to time in your experience. Yeah, a little bit. I think one of the benefits for me is I'm only a year in and I've made some significant changes since I got here.

00:17:21
I think it takes a willingness to break the mold and realize it doesn't mean we have to change who we are as an organization, but we can change how we do things. And a lot of it's really fear driven, I found. And there's this kind of almost like a poverty mindset of like, well, don't take this away because this is what I know and I don't trust that we're going to replace it with something better. But again, I feel like that's not a growth mindset. And so my challenge to my folks here is like, we are going to grow, and I want you to be a part of that.

00:17:48
But if you can't, then maybe God's calling you somewhere else, but we're going to grow. And I mean that sincerely. I really want them here, but it's not an option to just sit still because I think if we're not growing, we're shrinking. And at the end of the day, I believe marketers ought to be able to make a case. But if the executives don't have a vision for where the organization needs to go, there's not a ton you can do about it.

00:18:09
Prayer helps, certainly, but also if you ought to be able to understand, I was talking today about a book with my team that I'll share with you in a little bit, but it talks about having a North Star. Like, what is this North Star that your organization follows? And if we're going in that direction, then that's the most important thing for us, and everything else has to align with that. And again, if there's people and personalities or text decks or processes that are obstacles rather than a step on the ladder to get there, it needs to change. Otherwise we're just kind of wasting our time.

00:18:42
Every step forward is going to be two steps back. So I think it's a big deal. You've got to really have a vision for where you're going. Man, that's so encouraging to hear a Christian ministry leader who said, hey, listen, we're going to grow, we're going to grow, and God's going to be in charge of that, but we're going that direction. And lovingly, we want you to come with us, but if you can't, then that's okay too, and God's got other plans for you.

00:19:04
Love it. Love it. Man, that parable of the talents, man. You know, that parable of the talents. God gives you something, you better do something with it.

00:19:10
So we're going to try and do something with it. He's going to ask you, hey, what'd you do with that that I gave you opportunity. When people give to our organizations, right, some people give to are really giving sacrificially to our organizations. And so to not is something I think that God's going to have some questions for us one day on. Sure.

00:19:26
All right, so Transition, you mentioned a book. That was one of the questions I had for you. What resource do you love to recommend to other people in Christian nonprofits, specifically in marketing, but feel free to go anywhere you want to with that. So you mentioned what's the book tell us? Any other ones you have?

00:19:40
Yeah. So I've got two books I prepared to tell you about. Neither one are Christian. They're not Christian, but one is about nonprofit work, specifically, and one is not. The first one is called the High Growth Nonprofit by a guy named Matt Scott.

00:19:55
I met Matt at a conference years ago, and he asked this question early on in the book, like, what would you do if you had half your budget but you had to double your revenue next year? Which is a very scary, crazy question to even ask, right? But they've done that with a couple organizations his organization has. And what I love about it is there's a lot of really practical stuff, and it talks about this North Star being your guiding kind of principle. But what I think I love most about it is the whole idea is that we're growing.

00:20:21
It's a growth mindset. The high growth nonprofit. It challenges you to think, it's not okay for me to just sit still or just grow this much when I have this much potential. So that's a huge one. But sometimes I think then even when you're talking kind of like theory and big ideas for me, I can get bogged down in that if I'm not careful.

00:20:39
So I kind of need some practical tools and next steps. I just read this book, like, a week ago. I'm a listener, not a reader, so it's called Traction by Gina Wickman. It's basically written for entrepreneurs, and it's called the Entrepreneur Operating System. But it really is just how to run a business successfully.

00:20:55
And it talks about everything from how you staff your core values here's, the way you run a meeting, here's how you set 90 day goals. And so I literally just read it last week, and I'm giving a copy to everybody. I can get my hands on one from my team and just saying, you got to read this because I'm about to start putting some of this stuff in place because we have to make some of these moves in order to get more and feel like we do a lot of things at Operation Blessing. That's been my challenge. Just trying to wrap my head around how do I prioritize when we do water and medical and hunger and disaster relief and surgeries, who gets the priority?

00:21:27
But we've got to go back and go, okay, what are our core values? What's most important to us for the next 90 days? What's the most important thing we can do? And a lot of that is generate more volunteers, generate more new donors. That allows us to grow the hunger relief program.

00:21:40
So, again, a lot of this stuff. But the book has unbelievable practical application. Do this step by step go through this exercise, and it's got some really cool free tools online you can leverage. So Traction is a huge one, and that one's got my brain going like a. Million miles an hour right now.

00:21:56
There's a lot in that book. So as someone who's an entrepreneur myself, that's a book that's on the bookshelf. Absolutely love traction. So yeah. Yes.

00:22:02
And amen to that one. And it's one of those ones that you can reread it three or four times every time be like, oh, man, I couldn't even process that the first time. I need to go back and read that again. Oh, I can implement that too, after doing it. And that's something we've seen, right?

00:22:15
We're a company that's three years old, and so for us, we didn't think that anything that we started as a tech company, and so we didn't think that anything we're saying, well, what would we have to offer? I've never been the marketing director at a huge nonprofit or anything like that, so I don't have the experience in the space, quote unquote. And what we learned is so much of what we learned building a startup, like, just the mindset we had to have, the way we did things, the tools that we use, the stuff that we're willing to say, hey, oh, yeah, of course we're going to use this technology and the cutting edge stuff that we have to do. So much of what we learned with entrepreneurship was, oh, wow, man, if nonprofits would adopt 10% of that kind of mindset and those sort of tools and that kind of mentality, man, it's going to help skyrocket their growth. And so we love bringing those kind of entrepreneurial like, hey, man, this is what we're doing in the tech world.

00:23:04
Just so you know, this can kind of apply to what we're doing over here. Absolutely. Yes. Amen to that, for sure. Okay, last question, and I'll let you hop on out of here.

00:23:11
We always like to ask this question, what's a trend in the kind of Christian nonprofit world that you're seeing that's got you really excited? What's one that's got you a little bit concerned right now? Yeah, I'll start with excited because it's top of my mind, and it's been something we've been talking about a ton here. I don't know that I'm seeing it pick up as fast as I think it should, but we're doing a lot of work with it. Here is AI, and I know that's kind of like a trendy buzzword, but we're building a lot of stuff internally with some of our other sister ministries.

00:23:38
But, I mean, I watched something we hit one button last week and something that would have taken a team, like, seven days to put a full blown campaign together, spit out, like, 17 pieces of content in three minutes. And it was all filtered through our brand voice and our best practices. And this is our statement of faith and all these things. And so, again, we want to be good stewards of our money. We can't go hire 50 people to run our marketing operation, but we don't have to.

00:24:02
There's technology that's taken us from this big to this wide in terms of content creation. I think if nonprofits are afraid of it, they're going to really miss the boat and they're going to wish they'd gotten on sooner because I just think everybody thinks chat GPT and that's cool. I use it for some stuff, even every single day. But there's so many other engines feeding this thing, and you can really teach it. This is who we are, this is how we sound.

00:24:26
This is what we talk about, this is what we believe. Help us craft our message to this audience. Specifically, learn about our audience first, then help us craft a message. We're going to really lean into that here and be an early adopter, I hope, because I think if we don't, we're going to really regret it in a couple of years. So that's a big one, I guess.

00:24:41
The other one. If there was something that concerned me, I think there's this I've seen it firsthand. There's this idea that ROI on digital marketing is the only thing you can measure success by. And I keep listening to all these various discussions and having talks with my teams about the fact that if you are not marketing on every channel and engaging with donors on every channel, you're leaving money on the table. And so you run a social media campaign, and it doesn't look like your ROI is that high, but that person might also be giving to you offline.

00:25:12
They're engaging with you online, but giving to you offline, and you're never going to see that direct connection. So we stop doing things because we think they're not successful and we don't give them enough time because we're scared. It's that same kind of poverty mindset. And I mean, again, we all have limited funds, we're all nonprofits, we're all charities, and we need our processes in a way like for profits or a regular company would. And I just think if you went to a venture capital company and you were asking to fund your startup, like what you guys have been doing for three years, we have got to do things this way.

00:25:41
And sometimes we get really scared really quick in the charity world. We're like, hey, we can't lose a little bit of money on this. And it's not actually losing money, but we don't take the time to realize over year our trends are way up because we're engaging with people personally with content that they care about on various platforms. And I just think that fear worries me because it is getting crowded in the marketplace and we've got to kind of dig in and go, hey, I know this is going to work. We've got to get better at the content and the storytelling, the impact reporting.

00:26:07
If we do that well, it's going to pay off. And I just think people get scared too easily and kind of back out of it, and I'd hope they'd stick in there and kind of fight poured a little bit. I love it, man. It's so true. And there's a quote from Jeff Bezos where he says, if the data conflicts with the storytelling, trust the story.

00:26:24
I love it because the whole point is that data to your point, there's so many constraints on the data that we're seeing right. Sometimes, to your point, we're not giving enough time. And so it's like, yeah, well, that data in the snapshot looks bad, but give it another six months and let's see how it looks. Right. Or it's for sure, well, that's taken out of context, or, well, what was the acquisition channel?

00:26:42
There so many different factors that could be feeding into that, and so you got to look holistically. Be patient with, man. Such, such great advice. I really appreciate that. Okay.

00:26:53
Tell folks, Drew, where they can connect with you if they wanted to, as much or as little information as you want to give. Are you on LinkedIn? Are you on other social channels, email? What's the best way to connect with you if someone wanted to? Yeah, LinkedIn is a great way to do it.

00:27:06
I'm on LinkedIn. I don't post as much as I'd like because I just get busy, be honest with you. But I love talking marketing, business operations, charity stuff on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear from you. Go to ob.org.

00:27:16
Ob.org is where you can find about Operation Blessing. Connect with us on Social, our YouTube channel, all that good. You know, we try to do the best job we can of telling our story on those channels. It's a great way to find out. Very cool.

00:27:26
Well, thank you so much, Drew, for the time today. Really enjoyed the know. This is going to be a blessing to folks who listen to it. And, yeah, really excited for what the future has for Operation Blessings. You all consistently continue on that kind of high growth, nonprofit mindset.

00:27:39
Cool. Hey, thanks, man. I appreciate it, man. Good talking to.